bluejeans07 | Finally declaring a denomination???

Current Mood: relieved
Current Music: If You can Dream by Disney Princesses XD

Finally declaring a denomination???

Lj-cut for uninterested individuals or for people who don't want to think about it.

All my years as a Christian, I never really chose a denomination for myself and where I fit in the broad spectrum of Christianity (Church of Jean's Twisted Beliefs seem hardly appropriate =P). Mostly I've hopped from church to church after leaving Oriental Mission Church, like Lake Avenue Church or Saddleback. OMC was a good church to start, but I soon realized that I never fit in there, it's too conservative for me and I got scolded or gently told I was 'wrong' by various pastors and teachers, and was never told WHY I was wrong. I despise that, I want to be told WHY I am wrong, I want someone to argue with me and give me solid reasons why I'm wrong as I would give back solid reasons why I believe I was right! Yet I never got that, I was only discouraged from asking more questions and then judged for my beliefs. I actually did try to believe everything that the pastors told me, but something in my heart kept saying, "No, this is wrong, it's not right. I can't agree to this. I can't be catagorized into believe this thing that I don't agree with is right."

I realized that I'm a liberal person at heart and that I follow what is largely catagorized as a conservative religion where I agree and believe in important matters of it (God, Jesus, Holy Trinity, Heaven, Hell, sin) but just CANNOT agree to certain lifestyle declarations of it (homosexuality, war, authorized killing, etc.) I read the Bible and often go "Okay, it's in the Bible, I HAVE to believe it" and still hear that voice saying "It's wrong, how can this be right? It doesn't seem fair." I struggled with this for a long time and I haven't picked up my Bible in over a year because of it. I pray to God every night and tell Him about my life and my problems, as well as my hopes and dreams. I love talking to God because He listens... but I'm not quite sure how to listen to God because to me, the Bible is flawed. I just can't agree to everything. I mean, my opinions aren't perfect but they make sense to me, and there are times when the Bible just doesn't make sense and I get confused and there's no one I can talk to about how I feel because of how I was shunned and ignored in OMC.

After just sitting on my butt and weighing options, I've decided to go on a search for liberal churches and denominations. I want to find a place where I'll be accepted and where I can learn more about God. I want a place where people can tell me that I can believe in these things and where I won't be forced into believing something I just can't agree with. I want to be able to be told that I'm wrong and I want people to debate with me why I'm wrong on certain things. I just want my religion to make sense to me and feel that what I believe in is as perfect as it can get, instead of full of holes and flaws that it makes me confused. To be confused to the point of wishing that I was built to believe in Eru the One and the Valar like all the characters in Middle Earth was just too much of a slap in the face. Of course, if Professor Tolkien heard me say that, he'd probably be shocked and then drag me to church to do Hail Marys and the like even though I'm not Catholic.

So two denominations I'm looking into are Episcopalian and Unitarian Universalism. I really liked the sound of Unitarian Universalism when I first heard of it, even if it was a silly girl saying that she belongs to "The be-nice-to-everyone-and-be-the-best-person-you-can-be-while-you're-here-and-hope-that-whoever-is-in-charge-up-there-isn't-as-petty-as-they-say religion." I found the main webpage (www.uua.org) and found the basics of the religion:

"# The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
# Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
# Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
# A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
# The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
# The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
# Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
# Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
# Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
# Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
# Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
# Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
# Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature."

I like the sound of it so far although there are certain parts where I picture myself sitting with love beads and peace signs. XD There are two churches that are within 2 miles of my place so I'm thinking about visiting one this weekend. On the personal webpage of one of them (located on Orange Grove) was a HUGE rainbow banner that had "FREEDOM OF MARRIAGE" written across the bottom so that made me super happy.

I'm still reading up on Episcopalian on www.episcopalian.org, but I think Mandy's parents follow this religion and some of the things she said to me about Episcopalian just makes sense to me (i.e. Revelations being a metaphor for spiritual growth instead of actual happenings.) I can't seem to find any Episcopalain churches save one in Pasadena and I feel a little iffy going to it since it's called the "All Saints Church" and I don't believe in worshiping Saints or the Virgin Mary. I may just go for a visit and check it out so maybe. I need to do more research.

If anyone has any suggestions for me, let me know.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I know exactly how you feel. I've managed to feel home at a Southern Baptist church, and even though I know a lot of what I believe in doesn't match with the Bible, they make me feel welcomed regardless and they're normal people; I even went drinking with some of them! So even though some of their beliefs don't match with mine, I still go because it's the first church I've felt really comfortable with.

I heard about Unitarian Universalism and was interested in it, but for me my main thing is to just be in a church I want to be in, regardless of what other people may tell me. They respect each other, and that's the important part, at least for me. But if I wasn't already a member, I probably would lean over to UU because of their foundations and beliefs.

I, personally, feel I'm much stronger when I base a lot of my faith through prayer, because I think God will talk to us most clearly through praying. I do go look to the Bible at times, of course, but I do not take everything literally because they're issues I don't agree on. I always felt that since the Bible is written by man, and man is a sinner, that there can be some material that maybe wasn't supposed to be written in it.

Anyway, I'm proud of you and how strong you are in your beliefs and your faith more importantly. Keep it up and you'll always be strong in Christ.

...actually, only my dad is Episcopalian ^.^;; My mom is, like me, agnostic (power to the undecided!). I really don't know that much about the church itself, but I was reasonably happy when I was still going there - of course, I tended to reinterpret everything my own way :D

New chapter for Ravenclaws! Sojin, Annabelle, and Lora (Rachel) all make their appearances. Ruth Ann vs. Umbridge! Fascinating stuff! Just email me if you've lost the link. XD

Yay! ::is geeky::

Do you even have the link for that?
http://www.huntersglade.com/hpo/fic/m_gc/

Now I do! I've read parts of it before though, somehow or another.

I found it! Wootness!!! I did find a few typos but nothing really serious. Did you read what I posted in thecomic???

Ever thought about checking out the Society of Friends (better known as Quakers)? Many branches of this denomination are quite liberal and open-minded, and discussion of issues is usually encouraged.

I might be a Quaker myself one day, so I highly recommend looking into it, at least.

I know a lot of answers to your questions. I just don't know when to tell you because I want you to be ready when it is time for you to hear it. I think you're in the middle of the Christian-identity crisis. You're not sure whether or not if you're truly Christian because you don't feel like you fit in. When I first talked to Jenn about Christianity, I told her it took me nine years to be able to figure out the answers to her questions. It took me six hours to answer them.
But the most important core issue of Christianity is who is Jesus Christ? Why is he so important? What did he do for us? If you ask most Christians such as Flo and Rebecca, the core main values of Christianity always remain consistent.
Here are the Four Spiritual Laws that I learned from Campus Crusade for Christ.
1. God has a wonderful plan for us.
2. Man has sinned, therefore seperating us from having a relationship with God.
3. God sent Jesus down to Earth to die for our sins.
4. In order to have a relationship with Christ, one must personally invite Jesus as his/her Savior into their life. In John 14:6, Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Since the day when we were born, we were born with sinful nature. When we accept Christ into our life, we inherit the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit and our sinful nature will always be in constant battle with each other until the day we die. It's the Holy Spirit that guides us to the truth and helps us grow as Christians. When we become Christian, our priorities in our life change. Instead of having a self-centered life where we rely on our own thinking, we have a God-centered life where we rely our decisions on God and we trust in Him. Nobody ever said the Christianity was going to be an easy life. They're going to be trials ahead. It is not up to us to mode Christianity and turn it into a religion that sounds comfortable or feels right to us. It is up to us whether or not if we're going to take up our cross and follow Jesus no matter what the circumstances. In Christianity, Christ comes first. Denominations are secondary. Different denominations may hold different rituals. The most important thing is: Does the church love the teach the Word of God? Will they stay consistent with the core principles of the Bible? God is never changing. We can't change Him to make Him fit our lives. We have to adjust our lives so He can be the main priority in our lives (not the only priority though). Most of all, is the church centered on having a direct, personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

Well, I agree that Christ comes first, and if there's something going on in my life, I always pray so that I can know if it's something God wants me to do or not. But I do think that denominations can play a very significant role in not only joining a church, but how good of a relationship you can have with God.

The last church I was with was an Evangelistic church. And yes, they stayed with the teachings of the Bible and yes, they taught the Word with a good deal of love. But I didn't like hearing things like "You can't be good friends with people who don't share your faith" or "Secular music is bad for you." They seemed like such trivial things, but these were the things they were teaching us. I felt like they were teaching us to think that we couldn't associate with everyone else; to me, that was contradictory to what Jesus wants us to do because thinking like that only closes off acceptance. To me, they emphasized a lot on the RULES and CONDUCT of religion. I didn't feel right with that.

The current church I go to (First Southern Baptist) fits in so much better to what I felt being a Christian was like. They emphasize a lot on a personal relationship with God, which is what I always thought it should be like. They teach the Bible using scripture to SUPPORT that having this personal relationship is very important; just doing good things won't get you into Heaven. And many of these things I agree with. I feel at home here than I ever did at my old church; I was even baptized at my old church, but I didn't want to keep going to a place where I didn't feel comfortable.

But that's my personal experience. I know it varies from person to person, but in my case, the denomination seemed to play a huge part in me coming back to God; if I didn't feel so much at home there, I don't think I'd be in church right now.

I'm agreeing a lot with what Cici is saying. Yes, living life according to God is important but it's also important to me that my own opinions matters too. I may be born with a sinful nature and asking questions may be one of them, but I can't deny the fact that asking questions and debating is probably the best way to learn information and finding things out. Human beings are born with the ability to think, feel, and rationalize and I need to go through life in a combination of faith as well as logic. I can't have one without the other or else my life just wouldn't make sense to me.

I don't agree with a whole lot of things, but not for the lack of trying. I tried to agree, I tried to believe, but in the end I was only lying to myself and to God. Lying is a sin that I don't want to do so I'm being honest with myself and with God.

Christianity has different denominations because there are and will always be different people in the world and the fact that God has a plan for each of us shows that He knows that it takes different ways for a person to live their life in a Christionly manner. I think I'm on the right path right now. If anything, I could've quit being a Christian at anytime and turned agnostic or something especially since I was getting so confused to the point of really stressing out. This feels right and I feel more at peace than ever since I do have a plan right now and no one is stopping me.

It's totally okay to ask questions in Christianity. Debates are also quite popular too such as fate vs. free will. Christianity is not about swallowing all the rules with no questions asked. It was never meant to be that way. It's also about understanding the nature of God. He wants us to continuously seek Him. It's okay to honestly express yourself towards God. I always try to make sure that I'm living according to God's will.

I agree with your point there. Not all secular music is bad. I love listening to Duran Duran, but I also get a good dosage of worship songs by attending church. If we were only to associate with only Christians, then we'll never able to get the word of Jesus out to our non-Christian friends. That's right. Salvation is not about good works but through faith.
I went through the same thing when I was looking for a fellowship at UCI. All the fellowships were really good. Different fellowships work well for different people. When I found Intervarsity Christian Fellowhip, I felt right at home. My faith grew tremendously.

St. James Episcopal Church on Fremont + Monterey is really nice.

HOWEVER ~ if you want a buddy to test out the Unitarian Church, I'm MORE than happy to go with you come Sunday :)

COOL! Want to come with me this Sunday then?

sure! UHm. Could I ask a wee favor? If I can't get my mom up in the morning (which I usually can't since it's Sunday) could I hitch a ride? I have love~ly church appropriate apparel, too *swishy dresses*

Sure, no problem!

good for you :) oddly, i thought i fit in more with baptist ideology.. namely the seperation of church and state.. but oddly, my old baptist church wanted religion to play into politics...

i suppose it depends on the church... moreso than the sect itself. find one you like :) i think i may check out presbyterian.. which supposedly is very conservative... but, i think i read somewhere that presbyterians actually accept gay christians.. or something like that.

i'm not sure. but i'm sure with any religious denomination.. there will always be some more liberal versions or conservative. it really depends on the church. i just hope that my views are according to God... :\ I always worry that it isn't.

O__O;;

Ok... maybe I'm a little ignorant... but I've never heard of a Christian church which doesn't "actually accept gay christians" (as stated by stabxhere). Sure, there are some things that gay people can do that the church doesn't agree with... but there are things straight people can do that the church doesn't agree with either. That doesn't mean the church doesn't accept them as people.

And don't Christian churches preach the 10 Commandments? I'm very curious as to what you've been taught about certain lifestyle declarations pertaining to homosexuality, war, authorized killing, etc. Yes, it definitely sounds like you need to find a new church, even if only to expose you to more interpretations of the Bible.

I'm always willing to discuss interpretations if you're curious what others think about certain topics. It's a delicate topic, but very interesting sometimes.

Sure! Maybe Friday?? Yeah the church I went to was a very... interesting church where... very interesting things happened. Basically, when I entered my senior year of high school, my Sunday teachers changed and I got this guy who never failed to tell us that we were sinners to the point we walked out incredibly depressing. He kept using Awana, a kids missionary group where a lot of my classmates were members of and kept going, "Even if you're in Awana, you're still a horrible person." When we finally told him to stop saying things like that, he kept going, "Oh you kids don't get it right now, you'll understand when you get older." Uhhh that explains a lot o_O

Also, we had this um... very zealous and scary pastor who was in charge of the college group and used to be a gymnast and had been fasting for... like the entire month?! Or maybe it was more than that. And whenever he was preaching for the HS group, he kept yelling at us o_o;;;;

Ooo >_< doesn't sound fun!

My church had gay christians or at least i think they were gay. either way, they weren't open about it though because most of the church was against gays and said it was unnatural.. etc etc. so while they may unknowingly be allowing gay christians in... if it was known.. i'm pretty sure they wouldn't accept them as a fellow christian... because God forbid you sully the name Christian with the word "gay" :p

Ah, that's sad.

It not something I've ever really thought about, either. I know for a fact my church accepts gay Christians, and has very logical rules pertaining to such liberal things that usually stir up controversy. Of course, you're always going to get your biased individuals, but I feel good knowing the institution as a whole is very accepting of people's natural flaws.

At my church, they teach that the Ten Commandments were before Christians attained the direct connection to God through Christ, and they were used as a set of rules to go by so that you won't have to be sacrificing animals all the time just to ask for God's forgiveness. So as it is still a good thing to go by, it's not the ESSENCE of what the Bible is about really. It provided a way to keep God's people from being extra-sinful in a way. Because before Jesus died, sins could only be forgiven by blood; but since Jesus was the "ultimate" blood sacrifice, we have a direct line to God through Him.

I dunno how it is at other churches, but that's what mine teaches and it's also something I believe makes sense and is true. Just a little blurb =P

That's very interesting ^_^

Food for thought, related to the convercation we had a few days ago:

In one interpretation of the bible, I think it's the gospel of Thomas (best name ever!), someone quotes jesus as to have said:
"Jesus said...the Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood...and I am there, lift a stone...and you will find me."

They deal with this issue in the movie Stigmata, drawing inspiration from the fact that the Catholic Church is one of the most influential, powerful and wealthy organizations on the planet.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=%22The+kingdom+of+god+is+inside+you%22

So many people spending so much time making sure they go to heaven when they die, but they are all afraid of death.

A random chart I pulled up as well:
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I refuse to think that 66% of the world is wrong.

Actually... death wasn't part of God's plan. Apparently, death came from sin... so that's why people fear it. They fear seperation. I guess if you're truly spiritual like Jesus was, you would not fear death... and nobody is really that spiritual.. so, we all have an inherent fear in death.

And I think anyone who spends all their time worrying whether or not they are going to heaven or not when they die are the ones who don't realize God wants it to come naturally and be real. Not like purposely doing good deeds. I once saw a magnet that said "Jesus is watching! Hurry, act busy."

But anyway... I think all religions can justify their beliefs... there really shouldn't be a right or wrong. After all... as Christians say, we have no right to judge... only God can do that. But interesting statistic.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Finally declaring a denomination???

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject