(no subject)

[bluejeans07]

Currently, the christianity community is discussing 'Legal Marriage without Religious Sanction' and I clicked on it out of SHEER OVERWHELMING CURIOSITY. While I went in expecting a sort of car wreck, what I saw was a calm discussion between people (not to mention a couple hilarious threads) discussing the institute of marriage, their opinions, experiences, the government, etc. All super interesting, calm and informative, I think I learned more about the current legal definition and benefits of marriage here than I've learned anywhere else.

However, when I clicked to reply to a comment, it said I had to be a member to reply. LAME! Understandable, but lame I say! So, I'm going to write about it here because I can and also, because this was a discussion I ended up having with the Brother Two until 3AM during the Christmas holidays.

Shocking* backstory first: I have read the Bible from cover to cover at least four-five times, I read EVERYTHING, including really really boring bits of how to build a church, how big it should be, what should be use to build, etc. I didn't MEMORIZE IT but I read it and I learned from it. However, the Bible didn't make sense to me for a long time until a friend (who knows who she is and is probably reading this ;) pointed out that the Bible is a religious document from an archaic culture that's trying desperately to increase their population.

SUDDENLY ALL THOSE CRAZY RULES MAKE SO MUCH FUCKING SENSE. Dudes, it's totally cool if you have a ton of chicks, but chicks, you can't have a ton of dudes! Why? Because the main cause of death in women was child birth so if one wife died, there were a few spares to keep feeding the population. Also, if a woman banged another guy who wasn't part of the religion and lived, then that woman and her kid were going to have to follow the other guy's religion, so that's two that's taken out of the population! Homosexual couples are BANNED! Why? Because we need everyone to be making babies so that the population of this archaic group of people can GROOOOOW! The list goes on and on but WOW. SO MUCH SENSE.

Now, how all of this applies to the World of Today: it doesn't. The Bible worked, they got the population that they wanted, the rules for what constitutes a marriage isn't so relevant. Modern civilization has birth control, safe ways to have sex, and fantastic things called hospitals and doctors that allow women to have BABIES SAFELY. Also, modern society is no longer required to be WATCHING over someone's marriage and making sure they aren't straying or doing weird sex things or whatnot because of all these things. Marriage is no longer a business transaction that's done in front of society to declare that these two people are going to have lots of sex and babies to fuel the population, so please make sure to keep them in check.

What marriage now can be is an agreement between people who love each other, want to build a life together, perhaps have a few kids (whether naturally or through other means), have sex if they want to (whether it be with each other or with other partners as long as it's agreed upon and everyone is doing it safely), own property together, share health care, etc. LOOK AT HOW LUCKY WE ARE, EH? We have so many options and in the end, it just depends on what makes us happy! It's so much better than forced to be married to some stranger, forced to have sex, try to pop out a few children and to either most likely die in the process or have their partner die!

I'm going to end this with my favorite comment from the post that inspired all of this: "No matter what a person religiously believes, the government is a secular body that is supposed to be there for its people. Marriage secures home life for children and reduces the spread of STDs. It also clarifies question of estate inheritance and healthcare. From a secular point of view, legalizing gay marriage should be common sense.

And since the USA was originally set up by deists with a paradoxical bedfellow of religious conservatives fleeing Europe, it is infuriatingly discussed ad nauseum."

*Shocking because I always get a really shocked look on the other person's face when I tell them. Funny thing is, I seem to get the same response back, "WOW, I haven't read the entire Bible yet and I'm a Christian!" It's like... umm... yeah, I was too? But back then, I also devoured books like they're made out of chocolate and even read the shitty ones with Fabio on the cover because they were there.

Comments

[hope-guides-me.livejournal.com]

"WOW, I haven't read the entire Bible yet and I'm a Christian!"

I love you, Jean. I love that you never make me feel like I'm wrong for being a Christian... for believing the things I believe.

And this post is filled with a lot of stuff that makes sense.

[bluejeans07.livejournal.com]

I love you too, Crystal! There's nothing wrong with being a Christian or for believing in God or what have you. Everyone's different and need different things to survive and be happy in this crazy world, people just need to let other people be happy to and let each other be different.

It does make Leviticus seem a lot more sane doesn't it? XD

[hope-guides-me.livejournal.com]

Well, I've always thought that it was crappy to ignore part of Leviticus and focus on the parts that you want to acknowledge.

[bluejeans07.livejournal.com]

Yup, when in truth you go, "Oh, this is how they kept their population growing. We're currently suffering from over population, so we can ignore ALL of it."

[hope-guides-me.livejournal.com]

It does make sense.

[cat-eyed-fox.livejournal.com]

I go to a v liberal seminary (being straight and white and under the age of 40 makes me 3 times a minority), and we have great fun pointing this stuff out in our Older Testament classes. This texts weren't written in a vacuum by all seeing prophets who could even imagine a world where Slavery and a 25 year lifespan for women wasn't the norm. Hence the laws about how to treat your slaves and making sure all women were sexually reproducing more little Jews. Now we live in a different world and I imagine the Ancient Hebrews would say it's a better one, and would probably think the modern day "religious conservatives" are crazy pants for not taking advantage of all this safe sex. People who don't understand that need to grow up.

[bluejeans07.livejournal.com]

Kudos to your seminary! I wish my brother was going to yours instead of the very staunch one he's going to but eh. I like the Bible so much better as a historical document that gets their wee population to survive and grow, it makes me have so much more respect for it! Totally agree on the growing up bit, we are so freaking lucky with what we have, why can't we enjoy it?

[twirlynoodle.livejournal.com]

It is so infuriatingly aggravating, as a Christian, how many Christians don't get this. Or refuse to get it. And how they limit their understanding and appreciation of the divine by refusing to consider science might be a part of it all, rather than an opposing force.

I am beginning to understand why there is so much smiting in the Old Testament.

[bluejeans07.livejournal.com]

It really is and it's so perplexing why they don't teach this stuff in church's or Bible studies, or at least not in the ones I've been to and the one my family's currently going to. When I was discussing this with Brother 2, I could see the gears turning in his head and he understood and was interested and it didn't make him any less a Christian, he just became a more informed one!

[twirlynoodle.livejournal.com]

Because that would mean they couldn't be sanctimonious know-it-alls in a comfortable little bubble where they know exactly what everything means, and actually have to think a little bit and make their own decisions which is SCARY! Same with anyone who knows anything about the history of the Bible as a document, knows that the text we currently have is not and cannot be the direct 100% authentic dictated completely literal Word of God, as so many people claim it has to be. It's amazing and admirable that any document has lasted as long as the Bible has, in any form, never mind one as complete as this, and it gives amazing insight into a tremendous stretch of continuity in the history and society of an ethnic/religious/regional group ...

Anyway, I could rant on these things for hours, only I have no audience: atheists just nod in a superior way and say 'and that's why religion is crap,' and religious people sweetly and superciliously try to persuade me that ignorance and narrow-mindedness is the True Path. :P

[twirlynoodle.livejournal.com]

and it gives amazing insight into a tremendous stretch of continuity in the history and society of an ethnic/religious/regional group –

– but noooo, it has to be the actual word of actual God, undiluted, and somehow miraculously surviving intact through however many translations and transcriptions.

... is what I meant to say, but the sentence had gone on too long and I lost the thread of it.

(It is Friday and I have had end-of-production champagne, before going back to work on said production.)

[bluejeans07.livejournal.com]

Dude, I'll totally listen! Why do you think this post exists anyway?? XD Besides, it wouldn't be 'that's why religion is crap' for me anyway, it'd just be REALLY REALLY INTERESTING :D